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Each week, Benjamin Law asks public figures to discuss the subjects we’re told to keep private by getting them to roll a die. The numbers they land on are the topics they’re given. This week he speaks to John Butler. The singer-songwriter, 50, has recorded multiple platinum records, won ARIA Awards with John Butler Trio and has had several No. 1 albums in Australia. His 10th studio album is Prism.
John Butler: “I’m probably at my fittest when I’m working.”Credit: Kane Hibberd
SEX
What were you told about sex, growing up? Looking back, I was sexually active younger than I probably should’ve been. But my dad did say something when I was about 16: “Make sure that the person that you’re with has pleasure. It’s not all about you.” That was really refreshing coming from a man of my dad’s generation to be like: you are making love with somebody; you’re not using them to get off.
That still feels like a radical discussion to have with young people now, right? Yeah, the only education I got was, “Here’s childbirth; here’s sexually transmitted diseases.” And the church was like, “Don’t do anything or you’ll be damned to hell, so wait till you get married.”
You got famous pretty young. What was it like navigating sex and romance as a public figure? Do you have stories? [Laughs] I have no stories! That’s why I’m laughing.
Really? By the time I was famous, I already had a kid with my wife, [fellow musician] Mama Kin. We toured for 10 years straight – eight to 10 months of the year – with two kids [daughter Banjo, now 22, and son Jahli, 19].
Oh man … So, there are no stories. The only story was we were up to our eyeballs with parenting and hard work.
You and Danielle – aka Mama Kin – have been together for more than two decades. What’s the secret? A willingness to listen, a deep respect for each other’s autonomy and sovereignty, and being willing to change. She’s a radical listener and a total feminist. She never took my last name, and we called our wedding a “weaving”. I’m still getting to know her and discovering her. I honestly think that woman can do anything.
Long-time couple John Butler and Danielle Caruana, aka Mama Kin, in 2020.Credit:
BODIES
You’re now 50. How’s your body holding up? Sick! Awesome.
Any tips? Use it or lose it.
How do you use it? I climb trees. I jump down stairs. I always take the stairs. I’ve challenged myself to do a 360 flip on my skateboard for the next 10 years. What else? Sauna and ice plunges. I’ll do those three or four times a week.
Can you lead me through your piercings and tattoos? I pierced my ears myself. When I was about 16, I pierced my nose, too. When I was 20, I got my first tattoos, and I’ve done my own tattoos now. And I did [points] that and [points] that, but I got [points] this and then I got [points] this. And then I got these other two …
That’s a lot! What do you say to clean skins who are afraid of even getting one? I say, the clean skins are the most original people on the planet. I say, congratulations.
How do you ensure your body is in the right condition to tour and play night after night, in city after city? In many ways, I think rock ‘n’ roll saved my life. That’s the inverted narrative of what we expect.
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Has that changed over time – for instance, the way you treated your body in your 20s versus now? It’s changed. I’m probably at my fittest when I’m working, just because of what it takes. It’s so regimented. I know that I need at least eight hours’ sleep, and I will get that no matter if I go to bed at 3am, or 8.30pm. I know I need to drink lots of water and eat at least two hours before the show. I know I need to meditate. I know I need to practise, and warm up. So, for my whole day, I’m working backwards towards [including all] that.
MONEY
In your songwriting, you’ve raged against unfettered capitalism and its environmental impact. Do you feel that more or less acutely nowadays? It’s definitely not less. I’m not sure if it’s more, but I think I have a more sober idea of what money is. That’s probably because I have more of it now.
That’s interesting, tell me more about that. Well, for me, it’s all about sustainability. Money is a tool. I’ve always wanted enough to do what I need to do. [Music] takes quite a lot of money to do globally. But once I have that, that’s all one needs. So, from the time I’ve had money, I was donating it or I was playing for free. That’s how my career started: people were donating to me as a busker. And when I started playing shows, I was often playing for forest and anti-uranium benefits. The minute I could do something, I always donated my time. There’s an adage: with privilege comes responsibility. And one of those responsibilities is: pay tax, motherf---er.
What has been your best money-related decision? To name the band [John Butler Trio] after myself, rather than naming it with a group of people who I’d break up with. I saw that happening way too many times to many great bands who’d break up. For the principal songwriters, all these songs would be theirs, but then they’d have to start all over again [with a new name].
What’s been your worst money-related decision? If you’re an honest person, you’re inevitably going to hit something that you don’t understand about the system. But this comes back to my best decision. [If you have your name] you can always play live. And when I play live, no one else can do what I can. I can’t be Beyoncé. But Beyoncé also can’t be me. And there are enough people in this world – a small percentage, but enough – that will like me enough that I can feed my family.
John Butler tours Australia in September and October.
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