The following is the transcript of the interview with Sen. Tim Kaine, Democrat of Virginia, that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on Nov. 30, 2025.
NANCY CORDES: Welcome back to Face The Nation. We're joined by Virginia Democratic Senator Tim Kaine. Senator, thanks so much for being with us.
SENATOR TIM KAINE: Absolutely, Nancy.
NANCY CORDES: I want to start out by asking you about the situation in Venezuela, because there are now serious signs that military action, including potentially ground action, could be imminent. You have tried twice to pass war powers resolutions that would force President Trump to get approval from Congress first before any military action. Twice, you have failed. Do you think the numbers on this will change if there is ground action, and will it even matter at that point?
SEN. KAINE: I d- I do believe the numbers will change. You're right, I along with others, filed a resolution, no war in Venezuela or against Venezuela without congressional approval. It failed, but that was before all of these assets have amassed around Venezuela, and before President Trump said that the airspace needs to be closed. I will move with colleagues, Senator Schumer, Senator Paul, Senator Schiff, immediately should there be military action. And then secondly, I also attempted to stop the, what I view as illegal boat strikes in the Caribbean and the Pacific together with Adam Schiff, and the circumstances have changed in the months since we had that vote. In each of these instances, we were able to get two Republicans to vote together with Democrats. We think the escalating pace and some of the recent revelations, so, for example, the recent revelation about the kill everyone order apparently dictated by Secretary Hegseth. We do believe that we will get more support for these motions when they are refiled.
NANCY CORDES: You're referring to this new Washington Post report that says that Secretary Hegseth called for everyone aboard, the first suspected drug boat that was targeted, to be killed when two people survived. The military went back in, reportedly with a follow-on strike. What questions do you have for the Pentagon about that situation?
SEN. KAINE: Well, first, if that reporting is true, it's a clear violation of the DOD's own laws of war, as well as international laws about the way you treat people who are in that circumstance. And so this rises to the level of a war crime if it's true. And the questions that we've been asking for months are give us the evidence that the folks on board were really narcotraffickers. In one instance, there were two survivors, one Colombian, one Ecuadoran in a different strike. Instead of arresting them and prosecuting them, the U.S. picked them up and returned them to their countries of origin where they were released. So if they were narcotraffickers, why would we do that? We need more evidence about that. And we definitely need the administration to finally answer the question of why strike rather than interdict. If you know where the ships are, you can interdict. And when you do, you get evidence. You get individuals. You can squeeze them to give testimony against their higher-ups. You get evidence with the drug seizures. And finally, the other question that my colleagues and I are deeply worried about is the entire legal rationale for the strikes. We had to pry with a crowbar after weeks and weeks out of the administration. The supposed legal rationale for the strikes in international waters, it was very shoddy. Because it's classified, I can't tell you what's in it. But I can tell you it was not at all persuasive that these are legal actions. And so together with a whole series of things, the early retirement of the head of SOUTHCOM, the news that the SOUTHCOM's lead attorney said the strikes were not lawful, the decision of allies like the U.K. to stop sharing intelligence with the United States in this area because they believe the strikes are illegal. It's time for Congress to rein in a president who is deciding to wage war on his own say so, which is not what the Constitution allows.
NANCY CORDES: A lot of lawmakers on both sides have questions that are similar to the ones you're raising. On a related note, President Trump just announced this weekend that he plans to pardon former Honduras President Juan OrlandoHernández, who was accused of conspiring with drug cartels to move 400 tons of cocaine from Honduras to the U.S. He's currently serving a 45-year sentence. Were you surprised by the President's plan to pardon him, given how strongly the President feels about drugs coming from other countries like Venezuela?
SEN. KAINE: This is shocking, and again, this is not an individual who was accused of running drugs to the United States. He was convicted in a federal court in the United States. One of the bits of evidence was his statement that was picked up by those near to him that he wanted to shove drugs up the nose of gringos and flood the United States with cocaine more than 400 tons. He was the leader of one of the largest criminal enterprises that has ever been subject to a conviction in U.S. courts, and less than one year into his sentence, President Trump is pardoning him, suggesting that President Trump cares nothing about narcotrafficking. Suggesting possibly that pardons are now for sale by this White House. And if he doesn't care about narcotrafficking, and this was also shown earlier this year with the pardoning of Ross Ulbricht, then what is this Venezuela thing really about? The President of Colombia has said that he thinks it's about the U.S. trying to seize oil assets in Venezuela. I lived in Honduras for a year as a missionary way back when. The conspiracy theories are running wild in the Americas about why this- this military effort is so important to the President when he's pardoning drug kingpins who are running drugs into the United States. These are also questions that we're going to have to dig deeply into when we return to Washington tomorrow.
NANCY CORDES: I want to ask you about some big developments in Washington this week. The Trump administration is making big changes in the wake of this tragic shooting of two National Guard members. They are halting all asylum decisions. They are halting Afghan immigration applications. The President says he wants a permanent pause to immigration from what he calls "third world countries," we don't know how many countries. Do they have a case that it makes sense to put some of these processes on hold while they figure out what happened here?
SEN. KAINE: Well, you know, first, let's just acknowledge this sad fact, these two guards, members, Ms. Beckstrom andMr. Wolfe, what a tragedy for them and their families. And you know what? They should have been at home at Thanksgiving, celebrating Thanksgiving with their families, not deployed in a political deployment, to do law enforcement in D.C. that the D.C. police and other local law enforcement agencies can do. And this demonstrates, yet again, something we've seen so often our troops, including our guards members, they're going to serve in brave and courageous and self-sacrificing ways, and we can be so proud of them, but the orders that they get from their civilian leaders, that's where the problem comes in. Whether it's a Hegseth order to kill them all, or an order to send guardsmen and women in a political stunt deployment to cities around the country, these two individuals should have been celebrating Thanksgiving with their families, and I just mourn for them and all who suffer as a result. The President's decision to say, okay, this particular criminal who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, who came in under an asylum grant, that President Trump and his administration decided this past summer, that now we're going to pause processes or asylum from 19 quote "third world countries" you don't know which ones they are. You shouldn't paint with a broad brush. Go after a criminal to the full extent of the law. But don't say that all Afghans in the United States, those who served with our military and who lost their lives and their health and their families in many ways by doing so, don't say that they're all bad. Don't say that people who come from third world countries are bad. Virginia, about one out of nine of us is an immigrant, and our immigrant communities in Virginia have been an enormous source of strength to our commonwealth and to our country. And it's wrong to target them all for the bad actions of an individual, just like we wouldn't target- target other communities in the United States for the bad actions of one individual.
NANCY CORDES: Something tells me this is going to be a big topic of Congress- of conversation rather, in Congress--
SEN. KAINE: --It will--
NANCY CORDES: --this week. Senator Kaine, I really appreciate you being with us, and Happy Thanksgiving.
SEN. KAINE: So glad we could do it. Thanks.
NANCY CORDES: And we'll be right back.
