The following is the transcript of the interview with Secretary of State Marco Rubio that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on Oct. 5, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Secretary of State and National Security Adviser, Marco Rubio. Good morning to you, Mr. Secretary.
SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It would be extraordinary to end what has been one of Israel's longest and bloodiest wars. The prime minister said he's only allowing these talks that will be underway in Egypt to go for a few days. What exactly is the deadline for Hamas and the terror groups who are holding hostages? When do they need to release them?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, yeah, so a couple points. Hamas has- obviously, look, we're dealing with Hamas. Okay. So let's take that with- for what it is. But they have said that they agree with the President's framework for the release of the hostages. So what those talks should be about, and some of that conversation is already happening now, it's not waiting until Monday in Cairo, is the logistics behind the release of these hostages. How do you stop the fighting? Who's going to go in and get them? You know, when are they going to be released? Where are they picked up? What are the processes for this? That's what should be- that's what this conversation should be about at this point, because they've agreed to the framework of it. Then there's second- beyond that is what happens after that. And that is, how do we ensure that we can create and help build a Gaza free of terrorism, free of Hamas, free of anything like Hamas and that's going to take work and some time, not just to agree on but to implement. But that's important, because that's what's going to bring a permanent end to these hostilities in the long term. And so those are the two phases here. But right now, the most emergent and immediate phase is the one that Hamas claims to have agreed to already, and that is they are prepared to release the hostages. Let's discuss, through the mediators, the logistics and the mechanics behind how that happens. And that has to happen very quickly. That cannot drag on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So my sources have indicated to me that because the upper echelon of Hamas fighters has been so decimated, communication is difficult. The other terror groups who also hold hostages in Gaza aren't necessarily easily controlled by them. How do you manage around this reality and is full release by October 7 the demand?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, I don't know about the date. I'd be great if it was before October 7. We wish it would happen yesterday. But there are realities here, and then there are things people do to impede progress. Reality is, this is a war zone. I mean, this is a place that suffered a tremendous amount of destruction that fighting needs to stop. You can't release hostages while there's still bombardments going on, but at the same time that can't, you know- so that has to end, but that has to stop, but you also have to work through the other logistics. Who's going to go pick them up? We saw how this happened in the past. You know, the Red Cross would go in, they would be handed over through this process, et cetera. And so all of that's what has to be worked on, and is being worked on as we speak. So I'm not telling you there aren't some logistical hurdles here, but I am saying that the expectation is that this happens quickly. And I would also say that while we want all the hostages to be released, if there are five that are ready to go right now, they should be released right now. If another 10 are ready to go in 12 hours after that, the next group should come out, but ultimately they should all come out. And I think what you're hearing from people is, yes, there has to be some logistics that have to be worked through. But what you can't have, and what we can't see, and what we hope we will not see, is that we get into these talks, and these talks are then delayed, and it looks like they're unnecessarily delaying it. That would be a very bad sign. Let's hope that's not what happens. And it's going to be very important for our partners in the region who signed on to this deal, the UAE, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, etc, for them to be putting a lot of pressure on Hamas to make sure this happens as quickly as possible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you pointed out that releases can't happen when bombardments are underway. Our CBS team in Gaza tells us that there are Israeli bombardments underway. There were strikes Saturday. Tens killed, more injured, bombings continuing. One incident included 10 people killed when they tried to check in on their homes in areas where there are also military sites. Is that acceptable?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, I think, ultimately, what you're going to see here is that when an agreement is reached on these logistics behind when the release is going to happen, then I think you'll see those bombardments stop, and I think some of that activity has already decreased somewhat. So, there's a framework here, and the framework is simple. Once you agree on the logistics of how this is going to happen, I think the Israelis and everyone acknowledge you can't release hostages in the middle of strikes, so the strikes will have to stop. And, as you saw, the president state that very clearly on Friday, where he asked the Israelis to begin to pull back to create the conditions for these releases--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So this is not a violation of that?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, we're trying to get the hostages out. That's the bottom line. We want to get the hostages out as soon as possible. For that to happen, there can't be a war going on in the middle of it, and Hamas has to agree to turn them over. We have to have the right people go in and get them. That's what we're going to focus on right now, and that's what we're going to- that's what we've been focused on, and that's what the talks are going to be about today, on Monday, on Tuesday, to get this done as soon as possible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I hear you, there are two phases here. The Hamas releasing the hostages is the one you're most focused on. But, big picture, does the United States assess that Israel has so reduced the threat posed by Hamas that it can end combat and transition to the kind of lower-tempo counter-terrorism campaign that, say, the United States carries out against terrorist threats to this country?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, look, I mean, the ideal outcome here is you don't have to carry out any counter-terror missions because there are no terrorists in Gaza--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But can they take the win? Can Netanyahu say he won this war?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, first of all, creating a Gaza, or setting up a Gaza that is governed by Palestinian technocrats that are not terrorists and are not sponsoring terrorism, that's not going to happen in 72 hours. That's going to take some time to build up, and it's going to require a lot of work and a lot of international support, and that's the end goal here of this entire endeavor, after you get the hostages out. By the way, if you can't get the hostages out, you have no hope of getting that done. So that's why I say, you know that these two steps need to happen. But it's going to take a lot of hard work and time. You know, you're trying to build something that doesn't exist right now, which is a sort of civilian, Palestinian leadership that's not tied to terrorism. That doesn't exist right now. It's going to take a lot of help from international partners. That's why having the countries in the region and the Europeans and all others involved in this in both money and resources, that's why building that coalition is so critical, and then implementing it is not going to be easy. It's going to take some time here, but I think, certainly, for the first time in a long time, you see the framework and the outlines of something that could work.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But combat operations can end?
SEC. RUBIO: Well, that's the goal here. Well, you wouldn't need combat operations if there weren't terrorists there. But, by the same token, I would remind everybody, if, in fact, at the end of all this terrorism and a terrorist group remains active inside of Gaza, you're not going to have peace. That's the fundamental truth here that everyone needs to accept. You're never going to have peace in Gaza as long as there are terrorists operating from that territory, threatening the security of Israel.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of occupation and combat operations, that's different than a counterterrorism campaign. But, let me ask you specifically what President Trump said. He told Barak Ravid of Axios that Prime Minister Netanyahu, quote, "took it very far and Israel lost a lot of support in the world. Now I'm going to get all that support back." At what point did President Trump decide that Netanyahu took this fight in Gaza, or his operations throughout the Middle East- When did he take it too far?
SEC. RUBIO: I think the President's- the president's observation, basically, is that because of the length of this war and how it's gone- we've all seen the international narrative. We've all seen it, whether we agree with it or not. We have seen countries like the U.K., Australia, Canada and others come out and sort of signal support, or announce support for a Palestinian state. We have seen, even in our own domestic politics, some of the attacks on Israel. We don't forget what happened on October 7. That's the other thing the President repeatedly points to is, remember October 7. But the impli- whether we agree with it or not, we have seen the impact that this has had on Israel's global standing. And I think that's the point the President is making here, is that whether you believe it was justified or not, right or not, that we- you cannot ignore the impact that this has had on Israel's global standing. That said, if we never want to see this happen again, meaning a war like this, you can never have another October 7 or anything like it ever happen again. And that's the thing the President has reiterated and repeatedly made clear to our partners in the region, and that is, if you truly want peace and stability and a better future for the Palestinian people, then there has to be a Gaza that is not governed or controlled in any way, shape or form by Hamas, or anything that looks like Hamas.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. Does the United States support a Palestinian state? Because point 19 in your White House plan talks about "a credible pathway to Palestinian self determination and statehood."
SEC. RUBIO: Well, again, we've always said, I mean, this has been a consistent position throughout, that the only way you're ever going to have anything that looks like statehood is in a negotiated deal with the Israelis. We are so far from that right now--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but Prime Minister Netanyahu opposes a Palestinian state and thanked President Trump for speaking against recognition of one. That's why I'm asking you to clarify.
SEC. RUBIO: Well, we haven't recognized the Palestinian state--
[CROSSTALK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: I understand.
SEC. RUBIO: --the United States has not. And right now, there's no point in doing that--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does the US want to see one?
[CROSSTALK ENDS]
SEC. RUBIO: --because it's not even possible. That's not even a realistic thing right now. Because who, who would govern that Palestinian state, Hamas?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it's point 19 in your plan--
SEC. RUBIO: --Who would govern it?
MARGARET BRENNAN: --I thought.
SEC. RUBIO: Well, but that's talking about a pathway long term and in the future.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SEC. RUBIO: But one of the- before you can even get there, okay, that's, you know, before you can even get there, you have to have someone to turn that land- Israel's made clear they have no interest in governing Gaza. They have no interest in occupying Gaza long term and being the government of Gaza. I think Israel, I can't speak for Israel, but I think Israel would tell you they would love to turn over Gaza to a Palestinian organization that isn't terrorists. They would love to do that. But that doesn't exist right now. That has to be built, and that's going to take time. You're not going to build that in 72 hours. You're not going to build that in 72 weeks. I mean, it's going to take some time to get to that point. So that's the pathway this discusses. And I think if you look forward into the future where there is suddenly a Palestinian government-like organization, that can govern territory, then there's a lot of possibilities. But that has to be negotiated and agreed to by Israel. In the end, it's very simple. There can be peace in Gaza, there can be Palestinian governance in Gaza, whether you call it statehood or something else, as long as it is not terrorists that are in charge of that territory. That's what Israel agreed to when they turned over Gaza in the first place, and then Hamas took over Gaza and turned it into a terrorist camp, and that's what's led us to the point that we are at today. So we can get off that road and onto a different road. There are a lot of possibilities long term and in the future, but right now--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So maybe?
SEC. RUBIO: --we are far from that. Right now, we need to get these hostages out, and we just need technocrats that are not terrorists to be able to begin the basic reconstruction of Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That interview was taped earlier today, with the camera off, Secretary Rubio clarified that President Trump still opposes Israeli annexation of the West Bank though there is no mention of the Occupied Territory in the 20 point White House peace plan.
