3 months ago
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It is a truth universally acknowledged that successful podcasts inevitably beget a live show. Driven by our desire to see the people whose voices have been living in our earbuds, who accompany us to the gym and send us to our dreams, we’re prepared to pay good money to watch them have a conversation “IRL”, as the kids used to say.
That moment has arrived for Kevin McCloud and Tim Ross, the hosts of Tim and Kev’s Big Design Adventure. The paint is still wet on their joint audio venture, which launched in August and has yet to pass the 20-episode mark. But such is its popularity – Apple’s podcast editors recently put it in their Top 10 – tickets to some performances on the duo’s upcoming five-city Australian tour have already sold out.
Podcasting, like many public endeavours, is not a level playing field; a touch of celebrity gives you a distinct advantage. McCloud, 66, is a household name, having presented the British edition of Grand Designs for more than 25 years. Ross, 55, cut his teeth in breakfast radio as one half of Merrick and Rosso, before parlaying his love of modernist furniture into a career making design and architecture documentaries. Both men have rusted-on audiences. In 2019, they sold out two shows at the Sydney Opera House.
Successful podcast duos also need chemistry, of course. McCloud and Ross have been mates for more than 10 years, having met when the Englishman appeared on Ross’ ABC series Streets of Your Town. Even on a Zoom call from opposite ends of the world, you can tell their affection runs deep.
Tim Ross in Canberra during the Streets of Your Town series.Credit: ABC
“There’s an ease and a warmth to our friendship,” says Ross. “On our last trip in the UK we spent a full day recording, seeing things and having incredible conversations. But even before we did all that we spent a couple of hours having breakfast and just chatting. We never seem to run out of things to talk about, and I think that’s really special. The older you get, the more important your friendships are, and those people who are caring and thoughtful are the ones that get to the top of the pile.”
It’s possible McCloud is blushing at this point. But he’s also effusive when I ask him why Ross is such an important friend. “I see a better version of me when I look at Tim,” he says. “I admire him as a broadcaster, a writer and a comedian, but there are also personal things that I really admire, really personal things to do with family and warmth of heart.”
This is a design-led bromance, I suggest. “Well, it’s a slow friendship in some ways,” says Ross, who’s calling from the modernist house in Sydney he shares with his wife, Michelle Glew-Ross, and young sons Bugsy and Bobby. “Sometimes it’s just emails and a yearly catch-up, but we cram a lot in when we do meet.”
McCloud, who’s also at home, a house in rural Herefordshire he shields from public scrutiny (more of that later), credits technology with helping maintain his long-distance mateship. “We both have little studios at home,” he explains. “We use this incredible software that enables ultra-high definition audio. When I put my headphones on and sit next to the microphone, it’s like being next to each other. You couldn’t start a friendship this way, but what’s beautiful is that when we do meet up once or twice a year it’s as if we haven’t been apart.”
Kevin McCloud says he has always felt a connection with Australia.Credit: Paula Beetlestone
The idea for a podcast about “people, place, design and architecture” was hatched about two years ago. McCloud says it was simply a way for two mates to meet up, have some fun and indulge a shared passion. “We’re just having a laugh,” he insists. “We didn’t set out to make it for anybody except us.” I’m not sure I believe him. It’s clear they both take the job entirely seriously in terms of the research, scripting and editing required to make each episode coherent, informative and fun.
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What is beyond doubt is the enjoyment they get from travelling light, free of the gear and personnel demanded by television. They share a hired car, pick their own itinerary and shift towards anything that catches their eye. “When we went to Park Hill in Sheffield [a heritage-listed housing estate built between 1957 and 1961] we saw a bunch of people walking towards us, two elderly blokes and a bunch of kids in their early 20s from all over the world. I said to Tim, ‘That’s an architectural study tour.’ And it was. We stayed there for a bit, chatted to them and recorded it. If you were with a film crew, there’s absolutely no way you’d be able to capture that.”
So far, most of the Big Design Adventure has been recorded in the UK. They’ve visited landmarks including the Isokon building in North London, the David Mellor cutlery factory in Derbyshire and The Homewood, a modernist house in Surrey built by architect Patrick Gwynne. Some destinations are less obvious than others. McCloud waxes lyrical about a petrol station in Denmark designed by Arne Jacobsen, and Ross instigated a trip to Wrexham to discover how the Welsh city has changed since its football team was bought by a pair of Hollywood actors in 2021.
As well as serious discussions about design and its impact on the way we live, McCloud and Ross often detour into more lighthearted territory. Topics such as Skippy’s gender, favourite biscuits and the origins of the Splayd – the hybrid utensil that became a ubiquitous wedding present in the 1970s – are the perfect foil for Ross’ sense of humour. “If there’s a better implement for eating lasagne than the Splayd, I’ve yet to find it.”
The podcast will acquire a more Australian flavour during the live tour. Venues including Canberra’s National Library of Australia, the St George’s Performing Arts Centre in St Kilda and Brisbane’s Old Museum will provide settings for upcoming episodes. “I want Kev to see the Brisbane that I love and the people I love,” says Ross. “I fell in love with that city through its people and its architecture. The tour is an expedition in some ways. It’s not just a case of ‘we’re here, we’re doing a show, thanks a lot, see ya later’.”
Tim Ross inside his modernist home in Sydney.
You could forgive them for leaning into their public personas when they record the podcast. Ross, the boy from Mount Eliza, has the laconic ease of an Aussie everyman. McCloud is open and friendly, but there’s something very English about this Cambridge-educated design historian with his taste for bespoke tweed suits and his willingness to describe a building as “a temple to minimalist monasticism” without discernible irony.
McCloud couldn’t agree less. “I’m not a typical Brit at all,” he says. “I’ve always felt out of sorts in this country.” Indeed, he could have been Australian. In the late 1950s, his parents were set to become “Ten Pound Poms”; their berths were booked, a new life awaited. But when his mum got pregnant the adventure was cancelled and he was born at a hospital in Luton, an English town now famous for its airport and little else.
Growing up in Bedfordshire, McCloud felt a strong connection to Australia. His uncle, an artist, did manage to emigrate and Kevin had one of his paintings – “a semi-abstract landscape of the Outback” – on his bedroom wall.
“Australia was in our life. I grew up with airmail letters with the Sydney Opera House on the envelope, my uncle’s painting and a boomerang he sent me. It was the life we never had, and it had a huge appeal for me.”
Ross also admits to a certain sense of displacement. “I’ve always seen myself as a rather unconventional Anglophile,” he offers. “The bond between Australians and Brits is an extraordinary thing, isn’t it? There’s that desire to find meaning in each other’s countries and the eternal pull both ways. It doesn’t happen anywhere else.”
An early episode of the podcast was recorded at Ross’ house, which is described in lavish detail. I ask McCloud when he’ll reciprocate, knowing full well he won’t. “I knew this would bloody well come up,” he sighs. “It isn’t just my home, that’s the first thing. The other is that I have this day job called Grand Designs and I’m required to be an arbiter, a voice of doom, a Cassandra if you like. If someone was to see my house they might say, ‘What on earth qualifies him to say those things?’ You trash your reputation if you’re not careful. If I presented an ice-dancing show it wouldn’t matter one jot, but I don’t.”
Indeed, he does not. But if he did, and particularly if Tim Ross were a contestant, I’d probably pay to see it.
Kevin McCloud and Tim Ross: Live in Interesting Places is at Melbourne’s Capitol Theatre on February 7 and St Georges Performing Arts Centre on February 8; Brisbane’s the Old Museum on February 11 and TRI Building on February 12; Lindfield Learning Village, Sydney, on February 14; the National Library of Australia, Canberra, on February 15 and 16; and the State Library NSW on February 18.
